A couple of talks with Kelly and Christian the last couple of days reminded me of the old Commie Professor posts from their undergrad days. Christian has a brilliant cohort in his PhD program who is a little older than most of the other graduate students, probably in his mid-thirties. He presented at the same conference as Christian earlier this week and was able to hang out with the Arizona State group in the evening, something he normally does not get to do because he also has a full time job and a family, so he does not have time. He is a very serious guy and brought up that he started to understand better why free will is not incompatible with an omnipotent God. It is nice to find fellow travelers in the bastions of “rationality” common to secular universities.
The same day, Kelly messaged me from her graduate level Sociology class. Suffice it to say the conversation was barely coherent. The condescension is the hardest thing to take, especially from people handicapped by the morally relativistic indoctrination that is preeminent in colleges of all stripes, but especially within the liberal arts departments of secular universities. You can see our conversation below the comic strip.
Betty Blonde #421 – 02/25/2010
Click here or on the image to see full size strip.
durkheim is fascinating because he sees the same thing that we see
and comes to the opposite conclusion from the exact same facts
Kelly J • Mon, 12:21 PM
I don’t know how Kant can argue for moral behavior without divinity
he says you can adhere to morality without divinity, but morality doesn’t exist without divinity
i’m having a great time with my response to Durkheim
everyone in that class is silly
they essentially told me that religion was a nice panacea for people
and you can live “at peace” with subjectivism and religion
so i said “how can you do that”
Kelly J • Mon, 12:38 PM
Hahaha!!! Don’t go to high, but that is what I felt when I realized all the atheist, skeptics and scoffers were truly fools.
Mon, 12:38 PM
“that is diluted that completely cancels the point of religion”
Kelly J • Mon, 12:38 PM
Durkheim makes two points
Kelly J • Mon, 12:38 PM
how can ‘divine reason’ which i am interpreting to be ‘objective truth’
give rise to so many varying human worldviews, if it truly exists and is truly immutable
Kelly J • Mon, 12:39 PM
There is no point, even to life and existence, if there is no God and religion.
Mon, 12:39 PM
how can we believe in divine reason if it can’t be scientifically tested
the last one is a softball
scientific reason/logic is in itself an immaterial idea
you can’t use it to prove your argument if your argument says it doesn’t really exist
but that’s hard too because you have to use reason to say that
when can you not use reason
Kelly J • Mon, 12:40 PM
Yes. The funny deal is that it CAN be tested, but science is not the only domain for the discovery of truth. They ALWAYS talk like only science can reveal truth when in reality the only way you can make a case for the ability of science to say ANYTHING is through philosopy.
Mon, 12:41 PM
he also says that ideas are purely immaterial and then admits that they may originate in reality, but he can’t have it both ways
Kelly J • Mon, 12:41 PM
Reasoning itself is dependent on the reality of the immaterial so you can’t say that the immaterial is not real because reason itself is immaterial
Kelly J • Mon, 12:42 PM
i read that article i found online which helped a lot
Kelly J • Mon, 12:42 PM
saying that he mischaracterizes Judaism and Christianity
which both explicitly reject totenism and idolatry
(Islam kind of does too, and Buddhism is pretty ascetic which also doesn’t fit into his argument)
In Judaism and Christianity God reveals himself in solitude for the most part
this rejects the social nature of religion where people find God through “collective feeling”
which is what Durkheim says the true nature of every religion is
how do i respond to the ‘religion gives comfort so its ok’ argument – i find that extremely condescending
Kelly J • Mon, 12:49 PM
Yes it is. Religion gives NO comfort to those who do acknowledge God as God.
Tell them Christianity is not a comforting religion to those who don’t bow their knee. Neither is Islam and Judasim.
Mon, 12:52 PM
Why adhere to anything if it is not true? If it is just a myth society has created to comfort itself? By this reason, the religious are willfully ignorant of reality and the point of religion is completely moot. Religion gives no true comfort to those who cannot acknowledge religious truth as objective truth. It is condescending to hold true to the idea that the immaterial is false while allowing that religion gives comfort to people and must be tolerated. The basis of this argument is founded on some subjective morality, and imposes that morality on others.
Kelly J • Mon, 12:52 PM
The objective truth described in Christianity is extremely harsh to people who work against it.
Are you writing a response to something?
Mon, 12:53 PM
Will you flunk if you say the wrong thing?
Mon, 12:53 PM
she may go on my committee
Kelly J • Mon, 12:54 PM
i don’t mind pushing back a little
Kelly J • Mon, 12:54 PM
Hahaha. That is a good reason. She will pass you.
Well that is good. It also might make your quals easier.
Mon, 12:55 PM
she won’t sit in on my quals until my dissertation
several years down the road
Kelly J • Mon, 12:55 PM
Reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my blog friends about the Ren Faire back in 2013: The Ren Faire Exists and Other Musings on Reality.
“We, religious folks, do really, honestly, actually believe that Christianity teaches us what is true. I love how C.S. Lewis drives this point home in God in the Dock. It’s a fact that I can easily forget: I don’t believe in and follow Christ because it’s nice, produces good in the world, or is more comfortable than alternatives. I believe in and follow Christ because it is true.”
Thanks for sharing these glimpses into the world of higher education [smile].
~Luke
That is a great post Luke. It is good know others are as challenged with the mindless strawmen thrown at us. This surely seems like something that has accelerated over my lifetime. But then we were told that it would.